From Baryl - June Meeting Results

The June meeting was held on Wednesday 14th June 2006. Present at the meeting were Wakeline de Foxley, Crux Australis Herald; Massaria da Cortona, Baryl Herald; Francis of Hexam, Dromond Pursivant; Snorri Bldhdrekkr ar dhinslundi and Declan of Drogheda Pursuivants Extraordinary and interested onlookers Anselm de Calabria, Ascelin d'Ypres, David of Derlington, Drusticc inigena Eddarrnonn, Helena Anthony, Kareina Talvi Tytar, Nick Ward, Philip de Ravenshagh, Stella de Ravenscar and Wenefrith de Calabria.

Submissions Forwarded to Laurel

1. Angele Marie de Savigny

New name and device submission.

Gyronny sable and Or, a cross crosslet fitched and a bordure counterchanged.

The submitter seeks a feminine name. She does not care about authenticity and specifies no time or culture. She will allow minor changes, and in the event of such changes cares most about sound.

Angele can be found in Withycombe as a french feminine given name s.n. Angela. It is apparently derived from St Angela (1540). It is also apparently listed in Dauzat on page 9 as Angèle (we don't have this work). The accent mark in Dauzat is apparently post period and has been removed by the college in other registrations c.f. Angele Plaisance reg'd 04/97.

de Savigny or "of Savigny" can be found in Reaney & Wilson as a header entry (Savigny) for a french surname. Dated forms include de Sauenie, de Sauigneo, de Sauigni from 1086 and de Saueigni from 1196.

Angele's device

2. Colles Ardorum, Shire of

New group name and device submission.

Per pale gules and Or, two dragons combattant and a laurel wreath counterchanged.

The group seeks a name that means "Hill of Flames". They will allow minor changes and care equally about meaning and sound.

The formation of the name follows a structure "geological feature + adjective", which is found in several period examples in the Blaeu Atlas of 1635. [, accessed 3rd June 2006]. It seems likely that this naming pattern was extant rather earlier than this date. Examples of this pattern include Alpinæ Fœderatæ, Hollandia Australis, Hollandia Borealis, Rhaetiae Fœderatæ, Flandriæ Teutonicæ and Silesiæ Glogani.

According to the Collins Latin dictionary, Collis is the Latin word for hill. We believe that Ardorum is the genitive plural form of Ardor, meaning "heat or brightness" according to the same source.

The submitter's have included a poll form that satisfies the requirements of the administrative handbook.

Colles Ardorum's device

3. Helena Anthony

New name and device submission.

Per fess purpure and azure, on a fess argent three decrescents purpure.

The submitter seeks a feminine name authentic for 12th/13th century England/France. She will allow minor changes and cares most about sound.

Helena appears as a header spelling in Withycombe. The name derives from the Greek and was most commonly rendered as Ellen in English. Helen and Helena "came in at the Renaissance". This is obviously not compatible with the submitter's request for temporal authenticity, but we feel that changing the name to Ellen would be too great to regard as a minor change.

Anthony appears as a header spelling in Reaney and Wilson s.n. Anthoney, Anthonies, Anthony, Antoney, Antony. Variants of the name are cited from 1149 through 1306, although none have the desired spelling.

Helena's device

4. Philip de Ravenshagh

New name and device submission.

Per chevron embattled pean and gules, in base a griffin segreant Or.

The submitter seeks a masculine name authentic for 14th century England. He will accept no changes.

Philip is a header spelling in Withycombe. The name derives originally from the Greek and is said to have been common in England during the middle ages. No cited example of the desired spelling is provided, though Withycombe does discuss the profusion of spelling variants used, and her list includes that desired.

Ravenshagh is cited in Reaney and Wilson s.n. Ravenshaw etc. in the instance of one Stephen de Ravensagh (1332). A variety of later variants of the name are also cited.

Philip's device

5. Rodry ap Owein

New name and device submission.

Per pale azure and gules, a chevron ermine between three ferrets rampant to sinister argent.

The submitter seeks a masculine name authentic for the Welsh language/culture. He will allow minor changes and cares most about language and culture.

The submitted form of the name is "Rhodry", which according to the submitter appears in Saint Gabriel letter #2799 [, accessed 21st June 2006]. In fact that spelling variant does not appear; the letter discusses the forms Rhodri, Rodri, Rodry and Rudry, with the variants Rodry or Rodri cited as most authentic for Welsh use. We have therefore changed the form of the name to meet the submitter's request for authenticity.

The forms seek the name "Owen" citing Saint Gabriel report #811 as evidence. Once again, the report does not say what the submitter says it does. Instead the spelling Owein is given as the appropriate Welsh form of the name. We have therefore changed the form of the name to satisfy the submitter's request for authenticity.

Rodry's device

6. Sancha da Sylva

Device resubmission.

Counter-ermine, a dragon segreant ermine.

The submitters orginal device "Per fess indented azure and counter-ermine" was returned by Laurel in August 2004 LoAR (which came out Feb 2005) for having a complex line of division between two low constrast fields.

The submitter's name was registered on the July 2003 LoAR via Caid.

Sancha's device

7. Stella de Ravenscar

New name and device submission.

Per bend sable and gules, in bend sinister a ferret and a mullet argent.

The submitter seeks a feminine name authentic for 14th century England (Yorkshire). She will accept minor changes and in the event of such changes cares equally about sound and meaning (Stella = "star", Ravenscar = "Raven's rock").

A medieval use of the name Stella is cited in Withycombe. The name appears in York's Poll tax records from 1379.

Ekwall lists Ravenscar as a place in the North riding of Yorkshire. The second element (scar) derives from Old Scandinavian "Sker", meaning rock. No period citation of the place name is provided, though there are period citations for other Raven compounds, such as Ravensdale (1251) and Ravensden (1180, 1190).

Stella's device

8. Thaddeus Blayney

Device resubmission.

Quarterly vert and sable, a triquetra inverted and an annulet interlaced Or.

The submitter orginally submitted this device in May 2005 and was returned by Crux for administrative reasons including one form provided was coloured with markers but the others were very poor colour photocopies of the one original. The vert on the photocopies was an odd looking greenish greyish. Secondly there were insufficient forms provided with only three colour copies given and no black and white version provided. This submission is free of the previous problems.

The submitter's name was registered on the September 2005 LoAR.

Blayney's device

10. Wenefrith Everett de Calabria

New name submission.

The submitter seeks a feminine name authentic for England/Wales of an unspecified time. She will allow minor changes and expresses no preferences about the nature of such changes.

Wenefrith is said to be a variant of Winifred, which appears as a header spelling in Withycombe. Withycombe does not include the desired spelling, but does provide other relevant spellings such as Wynifreed (1585), Winefred (1631) and Winfrith (1646). The Latin form of the name is said to be Wenefreda. The submitter would prefer to use the Latin form of the name if the spelling needs to be changed.

Everett and Calabria are elements of the submitter's legal name and she thus wishes to invoke the legal name allowance. She has provided a copy of her driver's license as evidence of this fact.

11. Wulfgar jarnsiða

New name and device submission.

Sable, on a bend sinister between two fleur-de-lys argent three dexter gauntlets sable.

The submitter seeks a masculine name authentic for the 9th century Swedish language and /or culture. He will allow minor changes and in the event of such changes cares most about sound.

Wulfgar appears as a variant of Ulfger in Knudsen and Kristensen's "Danmarks Gamle Personnavne". Dated variants of the name include Wulfgar (348), Vlfger Vlgrt (228). Other variants include Wulfgar, Wlgar, Wulger and Wolfgar.

Járnsíða appears as a byname in Geirr-Bassi. The name is said to mean "iron-side". The submitter prefers to omit the accents from the form of his name. Iárnsíða also occurs in Lind, where it is cited in 1381-2.

Wulfgar's device

12. Ysabeau Angelline de Challon

Change of holding name.

The submitter seeks an feminine name authentic for 16th century France. She will allow only minor changes.

The submitter previously submitted the name "Ysabeau de Challon", which was returned on the February 2005 LoAR for aural conflict with "Isabeau Charron". At that time the holding name "Ysabeau of Stowe on the Wowld" was registered by Laurel. She then submitted "Ysabeau Suárez de Challon". This version of the name, submitted to Crux in August 2005, aimed to clear the previous conflict through the addition of a name element. Crux pended the name as the construction could not be documented. Though all of the elements are consistent with the 16th century, the combination of the French given name, "Ysabeau", followed by the patronymic Spainish byname, "Surez", and then Norman French locative "de Challon" was not likely as a period combination. The submitter has advised in March 2006 that she wished to withdraw the submission at that time to reconsider her options, which she has now done.

Ysabeau can be found in Tangwystyl verch Morgant Glasvryn's "Given Names from Brittany, 1384-1600" [, accessed 10th June 2006]. The name is a variant of Isabelle cited in 1537.

Angelline may be in "Late Period Feminine Names from the South of France" by Talan Gwynek [, accessed 2nd of June 2006]. It is shown in this form dated to 1528.

Challon may be found in Cateline de la Mor's "Sixteenth Century Norman Names" [, accessed 10th June 2006]. The article lists de Challon as a surname.

As before the addition of the second given name will clear the previous aural conflict.

Submissions Returned by Crux

2. Robyn of the May

New name and device submission.

Gules in chief a horse courant contourney and issuant from base a mountain argent.

The submitter requests a name of unspecified gender and makes no requests for authenticity. She will allow only minor changes.

Robyn is found in Withycombe s.n. Robert where it is given as a diminutive of Rob from the 13th Century. It is also found as a patronymic surname in Reaney and Wilson with the following dated examples given: Walter Robyn from 1279 and Richard Robynson from 1324.

of the May is said to be a constructed locative byname with the meaning "dweller by the hawthorn tree". According to the OED May is an alternative word for Hawthorn blossoms or trees. The OED gives several period citations for the word May used to describe the flowers of the Hawthorn tree including entries dated to 1445, 1548 & 1592. The citations relating to it's use to describe the tree itself rather than the flower are all post period. We searched for other examples of locative bynames constructed from the location of trees and have found such examples as del ok, 1275; atten Oke, 1296; atten Oke, 1296; atte Nok, 1326; atte Noke, 1327; atte Nokes, 1332; en le Okes, 1383; atte Elme, 1316; ate Nelne, 1317; atte Elmes, 1322; atte Nelmes, 1339; ate Thelmes 1356; de la Birche, 1182; de Birches 1246; atte Birche, del Birche 1275; de la Burch, 1275; in le Byrchez, 1332; del Eshe, 1221; aten Eysse, 1301; atten Nasche, 1301; ater Aysse, 1301; Aten Assche, 1301; ate Ayssh, 1327; atte Naysshe, 1349; in le Willewys, 1290; in le Welwes, 1327; atte Nalre, 1277; atte Naldres, 1277; atte Alre, 1327; atten Alre, 1332; atte Hauthorn, 1327; de la Holyok, 1300; del Hesel, 1182; atte Hasele, 1275. (Yes ok I did not to list all of these but Baryl likes trees.) Of particular relevance here are the examples de la Birche, 1182; del Birche 1275; de la Burch, 1275; del Eshe, 1221; de la Holyok, 1300 and del Hesel, 1182 which all have the meaning " of the (specific type of tree)". Therefore the construction is fine and the Linguia Anglica rule allows us to preserve it as the modern English "of the", however we are unable to send this forward as the documentation for May can only be shown to relate to the blossoms of the Hawthorn tree and not the tree itself.

We are also returning the device as it suffers from several stylistic problems. It appears to be pictorial with several people at the meeting commenting that the horse appeared to be flying over the mountain. We suggest the submitter redraw the device and consider lowering the position of the horse as the is no reason that it should be in chief, in addition please redraw the horse into a heraldically defined position, this is not the correct depiction of courant.

Robyn's device

News from Laurel LoARs

From Laurel's March Letter of Acceptance and Return


Bartholomew Baskin. Blanket permission to conflict with name and device.

Diarmait ua Riagáin. Name.

Submitted as Diarmait ó Riagáin, the submitter requested an authentic 12th-13th C Irish name. The submitted documentation, Krossa, "Quick and Easy Gaelic Names", indicates that 1200 (the beginning of the 13th C) approximately marks the changeover from the use of "ua" to "ó" in forming clan affiliation bynames. This also is the approximate time when Middle Irish forms went out and Early Modern Irish forms came into use. As both the given name and the byname are firmly Middle Irish forms, the earlier patronymic marker is appropriate for an authentic name. We have changed the name to Diarmaít ua Riagáin to fulfill his request for authenticity.

Seraphina le Dauncer. Name and device. Per chevron gules and azure, two Oriental dragons passant respectant in chevron and a griffin passant Or.


From Laurel's April Letter of Acceptance and Return

No Lochac submissions were considered on the April 2006 LoAR.